Mariah Carey says her album Butterfly was ‘pivotal moment’ during divorce
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Meghan Markle sat down with singer-songwriter Mariah Carey on her new news-making podcast Archetypes.

The Duchess of Sussex debuted her podcast last Tuesday as part of her and husband Prince Harry's company Archewell.

In Archetypes, Meghan says she wants to break through the labels that hold women back, in this case the word 'diva'.

Carey, who rose to fame in the late 80s to early 90s, stepped onto the scene with an impressive five-octave voice and an unapologetic image.

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Quickly, the media and public branded Carey as a 'diva' or a female star who is notoriously difficult to work with. But on Archetypes, Meghan looked to learn more about Carey beyond the 'diva' label.

Here are five things we learned from the Duality of a Diva episode.

Meghan and Carey had similar upbringings

Both Meghan and Carey grew up in mixed race households in predominantly white neighborhoods. The two share a similar experience feeling like an outsider in their school, town, and among peers.

Carey said, growing up on Long Island, New York was "very difficult" because her parents often got treated poorly for being an interracial couple.

Carey's mother, Patricia Carey, was disowned by her own family for marrying a Black man and had to buy their home by herself to avoid facing discrimination.

Carey's mother was a 'diva' opera singer

The Emotions singer has always had diva blood within her.

The word 'diva' means "a famous female opera singer", which Carey's mother was.

"I grew up with a real diva," Carey explained.

Having studied at Juilliard on a scholarship, studied with the same vocal coach as Leontyne Price, and debuted at Lincoln Center, Patricia used the word diva all the time but not necessarily in a negative context.

Carey and Meghan have shared experiences feeling stifled

Carey has been vocal in the past about the toxicity of her first marriage to Tommy Mottola in interviews and her memoir The Meaning of Mariah Carey.

Speaking with Meghan was no different, Carey explained her album Butterfly marked a pivotal point in her life.

"My first marriage, I was very much, what's the word, I was kind of locked away, I was sort of given the rules and had to stick with them," Carey explained.

Although Meghan did not speak about her personal experiences on the episode, much of what Carey said felt reminiscent of Meghan's revelations to Oprah Winfrey about her relationship with her in-laws.

Much of Carey's 'diva persona' is mostly for laughs

While being called 'diva' can be a good and bad thing, Carey has fully embraced the image and used it to make jokes.

"It's also for laughs, as me and my fans say," Carey said, "Honestly half of it is just for laughs."

Meghan cited Carey's MTV Cribs moment as an example where Carey acts over-the-top and dresses in extravagant outfits as a joke that people took seriously.

Carey added that she does enjoy being 'extra' and indulging in the things in life she did not have as a child but much of it is also just for laughs.

Carey describes her younger self as "sad, lonely, and eventually triumphant"

As part of Archetypes, Meghan asks each guest what three word they would use to describe themselves as a young woman versus today.

"I don't have just three words that's why people have to buy my memoir and watch the adaptation," Carey jokingly said.

As a younger woman, Carey says she was describe herself as "sad, lonely, and eventually triumphant," while today she describes herself as "exhausted, angry, yet hopeful".

"But if I have to describe the whole thing, it's faith," Carey added.

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This article was amended on 1 September to remove references to Carey going by the name Amanda Diva. That was not Carey, but Amanda Seales, who made a guest appearance on the podcast.


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